Tag Archive for: Next Generation Rockstars

Amanda Hammett: Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place. So welcome to today's episode of Millennial Rock Stars. We have a really awesome, interesting gas to kick off season two. We have Mr. Howard Behar and you know him from the world of Starbucks. So Howard, welcome to the show.

Howard Behar: Thanks very much. Great to be here.

Amanda Hammett: All right, so Howard, what did you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

Howard Behar: Well, I'm not a millennial or from the other millennium. I am, I was born and raised in Seattle and grew up in retailing and pretty much spent my whole life and consumer services or goods. And so, which, you know, made me have to be a people person, whether I liked it or not. I had those instincts early on. And um, when I was in my mid forties, I was trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life. And I met this young guy named Howard Schultz who was about 10 years younger than I was, is the modern day founder of Starbucks. He actually didn't found the company. He asked me to join Starbucks and then my life changed forever after that and it was an incredible ride. You know, you couldn't, you couldn't have predicted it. It's one of those things, it just happens to you. You know, when you're living the life right now. I can't tell you I enjoyed every day of it are pretty much I did.

Amanda Hammett: That's wonderful. Well, I think how is being a little humble here. You actually, you came in to Starbucks as what the VP of sales and operations and then you eventually helped them. You became the president and you eventually help them become the international Starbucks that we know today. They were a regional chain when you came in, right?

Howard Behar: Yeah, a very small, there were only 28 stores when I started.

Amanda Hammett: Yes.

Howard Behar: There are $50,000, like 28.

Amanda Hammett: There are quite a few. But what I, what I love about Starbucks is so you can go to anyone around the world and they have their own little community built on and to the people that go there along with the Baristas and people working there, it's a small like microcosm of a community and it's fine.

Howard Behar: Right? How many stores? Starbucks as it can only be one. It's the one that you experienced. And if that's not right, right. Yeah. So, you know, big is not an excuse for not being good. You know, to take care of each individual human being one, one customer at a time, one cup at a time.

Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. So you are a big, big believer in the idea of being a servant leader. Now, how does that concept come about for you?

Howard Behar: When I was my early or mid twenties, uh, uh, one of my mentors, my most important mentor, a guy named Jim Johnson, who I still know today, and he in our, he gave me this little booklet called the servant as leader, written by a man named Robert Greenleaf, a little orange pamphlet, more than 50 pages. And so I read that book and I probably read it a hundred times. That began my journey because it put into words the things that I felt mattered in my life. I never had a definition for it, never thought of it. And the context of being servant leadership. Um, and so that began a journey. And from that on, you know, I realized that servant leadership was primarily about learning to lead yourself first. And then once you figure that out, then you learn how to lead others through serving others. Not through managing others, but actually being of service to others.

Howard Behar: The people that you work with, people who report to you or, or those human beings we call customers canceling. Servant leadership at its core is really the understanding that our job is to serve other people and their journeys to accomplish and attain the things that they want in their life. And in so doing, we will get what we want to know. But you can't with the other way around.

Amanda Hammett: Correct. That is, that is very, very true. So, Howard, I would imagine that throughout your career you have witnessed and maybe even bit have experienced other forms of leadership now, how did that actually shape your leadership style?

Howard Behar: Well, you know, all the, all those experiences, you know, you observe your, you participate, you're affected by different leadership styles. And, I was never very good with the autocratic leadership style and I would fight back against those things. I had a guy that you're my boss, and every morning he'd come in and he'd say, hi, a dummy. How you doing?

Amanda Hammett: That's terrible.

Howard Behar: Thought he was being funny.

Amanda Hammett: Right.

Howard Behar: It made me mad. One day came in and he was a big guy who's like six foot four. His name was Irwin Greenwalt. Then I went up to him and I got, I couldn't put my nose in his face, so I put my nose in his chest and I pointed out and I said, Irwin, don't you ever call me a dummy again? You know, a month later I was fired, you know, but you know, it's, you know, it's the way things are, right?

Howard Behar: I needed it. I needed leaders that, uh, the gave me opportunity that, uh, you know, explained what the values and the mission of the organization where, and then sent me on my way and left me alone. Nobody would be harder on, on me than myself if I made a mistake right into something, right. I'd be the first one to admit it. But bosses, it, we're always pointing out what I did wrong versus pointing out the things that I did write really affected me.

Amanda Hammett: Yeah.

Howard Behar: I said, I am never going to be like that. And it's amazing how many bosses are like that. They, they, they think that the way you help people improve is by, uh, pointing out what they do wrong so they can correct. But the way you get people to improve is to have point out the things they do, right?

Howard Behar: Because we all gravitate towards that right? So it was that kind of leader, the kind of leadership that empowered me, that gave me responsibility and accountability and then left me alone. Um, yeah, that really made a difference in my life. And I used to say that before I started at Starbucks and my manager, I said, everybody gets to vote in my organization and their areas of responsibility and areas of expertise, even if sometimes it's not, there is a expertise. And when I got to Starbucks, I kind of, different Frazier said, the person who sweeps the floor should choose the bro and essence. I want her to be the kind of leader that hire great people that, that brought him into the organization properly and then send them on their way and helped him whatever they needed help. And so that's where I blossomed and I felt other people would blossom under the same kind of leadership style I was, I was not good under an autocratic leader. Okay.

Amanda Hammett: I, you know, I really don't think anybody thrives as an employee under that kind of leadership style.

Howard Behar: I don't either. Yeah. I don't either.

Amanda Hammett: Yeah. And that is something that I heard in season one of millennial rock stars. Every single a millennial that was nominated to be on the show, they all mentioned in one form or another that they wanted the, the ability to go in and do their job and not be micromanaged and not, and really to be empowered to do what they were hired to do in the first place. And that's where they grew the most. They may have made mistakes, yes, but they grew under that kind of leadership. So I applaud you for recognizing that at a time when probably it wasn't in vogue, he wasn't cool to do it.

Howard Behar: That was 50 years ago, lobby for the millennials were even thought about

Amanda Hammett: Love it. Now, were you ever pressured by a board or higher ups or at any point in your career to focus more on the numbers and less on the people and what was your response?

Howard Behar: Yeah, that was, there was always that perceived conflict, but I was always, I used to give, you know, say back to them, Hey, wait a minute. You know, there's no inherent conflict between achieving results and treating people well. Right. As a matter of fact, it's the opposite way around. So I said, if you don't like around my results farming, but I need to lead the way I need to leave now. And that happened a lot of times. You know, I wasn't a soft later. I wasn't a person that didn't hold people accountable. I did. I hold myself accountable. I hold others accountable. But again, in a way that put people up, not put people down because that's what I needed. Money.

Amanda Hammett: Absolutely.

Howard Behar: That just the way that it was. But that's there all the time. It's amazing how many leaders, how many bosses, you know, think that way. I, I've given hundreds of speeches around the world and how many times people say, well, it's too soft. How do you possibly get results? I said, you, I said, I get it. I said, I'll tell you what. I'm always willing to have a contest with you. What man? Your Organization for a year. And I'll show you what, what, how trading people well gets better results in the way you're doing it.

Amanda Hammett: Has anyone ever taken you up on that?

Howard Behar: Nobody's ever taken me up because they know in their hearts, which, right cause see it's an exact, you know, leadership in organizations. Exactly the same as as relationships and families. Yes. I mean does it really work to come home and tell your wife every day what you, what they did wrong, right or right. It doesn't, does it? No, it does not. Doesn't, doesn't work. Come home yelling and screaming all the time. No it doesn't. Yeah. I used to tell a story about Harris. I used to challenge people. Should I want you to go home tonight, watch on your way home. I want you to buy a really nice bottle of wine. Something that your significant other really liked and then also by two really expensive, right? L glasses. Those are really nice crystal glasses for drinking wine and when you get home, I want you to say, honey, I brought to your favorite wine.

Howard Behar: Come on, let's have a conversation. First of all, she or he will know something's wrong. But because you just did that, let's say you sit down and you pour a nice little sip wine and Annie and you look at and they say, honey, this is your lucky day. This is going to be your annual performance review and you know how to give don some things well and you've done some things wrong and you know how well does that, how well is that going to work as your ass has bounced and out the front door right now? That's not the way relationships work at home or in business.

Amanda Hammett: No, you're absolutely correct. You are absolutely correct. Yeah. So we kind of touched on this before I turned on the recording, but um, in your opinion, what is the difference or what is the influence that millennials have brought into corporate America?

Howard Behar: Well, you know, certainly technology, right? No, they're there a familiarity with, with technology, their understanding of how to use technology, I think has been great. Um, I think, uh, you know, I mean, it's like all new generations, you know, they bring their point of view about the world and where the world is and, and how they think the organization should address the issues in the world. There are much more likely to attach to purpose then I think my generation was, you know, uh, you know, we never talked about purpose. You know, now everything is about purpose. Everything as well about why are we here? Why are we doing what we're doing and are we living up to that purpose? And so I think that's a, that's a big one too. I think one of the things that I think they've brought that I'm not so, I shouldn't say happy about, but, but that I don't subscribe so much to, as this constant focus on the data.

Amanda Hammett: Okay.

Howard Behar: You know, if I had more data, I can make a better decision. You know, there are points in time where you don't need more data. What you need to do is look inside yourself, right? From a human perspective and look at the people that you're serving from a human perspective and say what's good for them. You know at that.

Amanda Hammett: Yeah, I would agree wholeheartedly.

Howard Behar: It's just too much data. Dadda Dadda Dadda Dadda you don't have, your wife comes home one night and says, you know, I'm not happy in my marriage. Do you need any other points of data? That's one point. You just had to listen to your wife. If you listened to your customers, you listen to the people that are working in your organization. You know you get enough data, people get lazy. They want this technology to solve their problems for them. They don't want to spend the time talking to people.

Amanda Hammett: Absolutely.

Howard Behar: I grew up with that data. My data, my data came from having a talk one on one to the people I was serving and to the people that worked in the organization. That's how I got my data and it was much more human and it gave me insights that you could never get by asking people questions on a computer.

Amanda Hammett: I agree. I completely agree and it's really interesting. What I've seen is this generation has actually grown up being studied and you know, taking surveys and the test, I mean from day one and it's really interesting. You can hand them a survey to take, they can hand it back to you and then you can ask them verbally the same questions. And they don't always match up because they, they've been taught to take the test. They've been taught to, you know, they're giving you the information they think you want. But in reality, when you're having a actual human to human conversation, sometimes that can change

Howard Behar: And they're looking at somebody. Yeah. They're in their eyes and you see their face sort down, sort out the wheat from the chaff real quickly. You know what's true and what's bullshit. Right. There was an explosion.

Amanda Hammett: And that's okay. That's okay. So, all right. How would you say that millennials really influenced the workplace? Or how did it change your leadership style or, or did it change your leadership style?

Howard Behar: I don't think it really did. Yeah. I've been, I've been managing organizations for 53 years. And you know, through from my own generation to, to, um, you know, millennials, Steven to generation x. You know, and it did because I, I felt that human beings were human beings and, you know, are there some differences? Yeah. But this generation is much more sensitive to input, you know, they, they tend to see all and put his criticism versus helping. So I have found that I have to do it a little bit differently. You know I have to be a lot. I always was gentle, but I found that I had to ask for permission for him to give input more. And once I got permission, then it was clear. And I do that today. And I do that with everybody now, you know? Yeah. Just these generations. I do it with my own generation, you know, permission to coach. I say.

Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Howard Behar: And that way they, once they say yes, then they kind of open up, you know, or at least there's, they're conscious of where they are. So, you know, I think that's, that's, uh, that's, other than that, you know.

Amanda Hammett: Yeah.

Howard Behar: Hi, just I'm up guy that believes that human beings are human beings and that if I say I love you, you know, people understand that. You know, and if I say I trust you, people understand that and when I don't trust them or I don't love on, they understand that too. And that, you know, so you know, there are there really, you know, and, and it's across, like I said before, it's across cultures. It is, you know, I mean there's much more, a bigger difference across cultures then there is a cross our own culture and the different generations.

Amanda Hammett: Okay.

Amanda Hammett: I would agree. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Howard Behar: You know, you learn to deal with that and then you can deal with anything.

Howard Behar: You know, I, um, one of the things when I am leading groups of company leaders, whether it's from a huge fortune 500 are a small startup, one of the most,

Amanda Hammett: okay

Howard Behar: Common things that I bring up very early on in the conversation is this idea of generational strife is not new. Um, I can't tell you how many conversations I've had over the years that are just like, oh, these millennials, they're the worst. Like how do you do what you do? But actually this idea of generational style strife has been around since the beginning of civilization. Others, a lot of famous quotes from Socrates and Plato complaining about younger generations and their lack of respect for authority. And there was a lack of respect for their elders and, and just being too, you know, too much of everything. And, and I just think that it's really interesting as you, as each youngest generation comes through, they are quote unquote the worst. And I just, I think it's

Howard Behar: true. That's, that's fallacy. They're not that different. I agree. Uh, you know, there are some differences and it's good to be aware of it, but you know, if you ask them, they'll tell you.

Amanda Hammett: Okay.

Howard Behar: But I find it's almost individual by individual. When you take this brush and painted across a broad category of people, you're going to make huge years. If you, if you talked to each individual different, uh, uh, on their own, you know, individually, then you learn.

Amanda Hammett: Okay.

Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. You've got to learn to lead the people that you're with and what each person responds to you. Because the way I respond to things maybe completely different than the way you respond to things. Exactly. And that, you know, we have different drivers, we have different motivators and a really great leader can recognize those things and give, you know, help you with those.

Howard Behar: Yeah, I agree. Perfect.

Amanda Hammett: Oh, I love it. So now what are the benefits for leaders? What are the benefits to focusing on the individual development and education of your people on your team?

Howard Behar: Well, look at team is made up of a bunch of individuals. Yes, I'll, I'll try to live their lives. You know, I'll be treated with respect, find love or whatever it is and our or per and find purpose in their lives. And unless you, unless you have individual communication, you don't know what those things are. They're not things that they can put down in a questionnaire and get underneath it all. And you know, you need to know about their families of origin. You need to know about, you know, when I interview people or talk to people, I, one of the questions I ask is if they have a brother and sister, I said, what does your brother or sister like a batch of what don't they like about you? Wish you would have become versus what you've become, you know, uh, you know, uh, you know, who's your best friend and why are they best friend and when, when did your best friend disappoints you and what disappointed you in them and when did you disappoint your best friend and what did you do to disappoint your friend?

Howard Behar: And trying to find out who they are, what matters to them. And then once you do that, then then you know, because they, they respond individually to say one thing to one person that reported to me say exactly the same thing to another person. They'd take it completely differently. Yes, yes. So I had when I retired once from Starbucks and when I came back, uh, to, uh, be present in North America, I had still been on the board, but there was a guy that I inherited from a guy that preceded me and he was in charge of strategy for North American retail and his name was Dan. And Dan was one of those kind of guys that he, his office was right next door to me. He was in my office every day over something. He was the most high maintenance guy I've ever worked with my life.

Howard Behar: And some people just couldn't deal with them. Always believed I wanted blonde hair, brown hair. I want a blue eyes, green eyes. I wanted people that thought differently from the other people I wanted. I wanted real diversity is about diversity of thought.

Amanda Hammett: Yes.

Howard Behar: And so I learned to deal with Dan and I figured out what the, you know, that he was, he was a guy that just needed lots of caring, but he was the smartest guy in my team. Abs without a question. He, he could see around corners like nobody else could see. Really. Yeah. He was the guy. He basically saved the food business. It's Starbucks and you know, he wasn't always the most, you know, people would complain that, uh, that he would, that he would break a lot of glass and he did. It wasn't that he didn't care about people but, but that, you know, he was the only dealt 50 cards and the 52 card deck and the two cards he was missing was where these empathy cards.

Howard Behar: Ah, I had to work with them all the time on the empathy. Did I ever get in perfect. Not while he reported it to me, but I still know him today and he really has moved because he focused.

Amanda Hammett: Yeah. That's fantastic.

Howard Behar: Yeah. He really moved. But he did it because he wanted to. So I had lots of different people and they were, they all were different. And I had to know each one individually what motivated them, what they cared about, where their strengths for where their weaknesses were and that helped them. Absolutely. And I'll be all they can be,

Amanda Hammett: That is fantastic. And what's even more fantastic is that he was able to accept the coaching from you, you know?

Howard Behar: Well, if you do, I want, if you can do, you can say anything to anybody as long as this with love in your heart and with caring and people know that you know it. Do they feel it? Yeah. If you constantly are beating people up, they're never going to listen to you. But you know, and nine times out of 10, the conversations we were having were always positive. So I had a lot of rocks on that scale. So when I said, you know, uh, uh, permission to coach, you know, I had ears open and heart open, which is most important.

Amanda Hammett: Yes. Because he was ready to accept whatever coach. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love that. So I'm now in the past and I've watched some other interviews that you've done in the past. Um, you have actually said that Starbucks has a really great recruiting program. Yeah. Now, what do you think really sets it apart? I mean, what, what makes it so special?

Howard Behar: Well, we, we lead with purpose, right? So that, that's the thing we talk about first and, and the truth is our recruiting program is our people. Yes. Right. That's what really works. In the early days, you know, we weren't exactly so people focused, and I coined this phrase that we weren't in the coffee business serving people. We are in the people business serving coffee. Yes. It took us time to really bring that into our organization. But once it was there, then you know, like Jim Collins says, you know, people that didn't fit would inject themselves like a virus, that virus and had started to be that all of the people that fit would start applying. And so our organization became, you know, the, the recruiters and, but it really was about purpose. First. It wasn't about skill sets first. And it was about who the human being was first.

Howard Behar: It wasn't about what their skills were, right or not. Because if you don't get, if you don't get to him inside, right, nothing else will happen. I don't care how smart you are. I don't care how technology technologically fit you are a professional. You are, it doesn't work. And we actually, you know, we made lots of mistakes, bring the wrong people into the organization, but the organization moved 'em out because they realized they didn't fit. And uh, that it was all about, you know, at the end of the day how we treated each other. And the first guiding principle at Starbucks is that we treat each other with respect and dignity. And the last guiding principle was we recognize it. Profitability is essential to our future growth and success. That wasn't the first thing was the last thing. That's what came out of all the guiding principles. Yes, yes.

Amanda Hammett: I agree. You know, one of the things, I started my career as a recruiter at a major fortune 500, and it was just, it was amazing. It was all about the skills, what's on the resume, what's on the resume? And I'm like, but if you can't work on a team, if you don't fit, this doesn't, this isn't going to work. And they're like, no, no, just focus on the skill. Um, and it's amazing because it's still like that today. And I've been in the workforce for years and I'm no longer a recruiter, but when I go in and work with these large companies, it's still very much, well what's on their resume? And I'm like, you don't understand. Like you need to really focus on the individual person, not what's on the skillset, but actually the individual person, how are they going to match? How are they gonna mold skills can be developed, but personality and who they are as a human being, that's, that's already there, that's already developed that determines the success or failure of an organization emotionally and what your culture is, you know, because the culture is a reflection of how you act, not what you say.

Howard Behar: And so if you bring people that don't fit into the organization, then people start to think, oh, that's how I need to behave. And then all of a sudden you get to call it. You don't, you know the culture you thought you had. You don't. And it's, there's no question about it. Focus on the people side first. I look, if you're hiring somebody that needs to be technically proficient and it, or accounting or something like that, fine. That that's their right, right. But at the end of the day, it's do they fit on the team and do they have what I need or can I teach, are they smart enough where I can teach them the skills because there's such a good people. I always hired people first. Yes. Always. You know, and uh, you know, and then, and then, you know, if there was something that they technically are experience that they needed to have.

Howard Behar: But you know, I heard a lot of people that didn't have perceived the resumes skills you wouldn't have, you had said, well, Geez, they don't have the resume that I need, but they had the people skills and I hired them and they fit perfectly and they learned the skills. Yes. Yup. Absolutely. So what career advice, because you know, one of the other things that I do a lot of, or I find myself doing a lot of his coaching and helping, uh, people who are earlier in their career. So what advice would you give for an early career employee? So someone who's fresh out of college. Oh Great. That's a good question. Number one, you got to know who you are, right? What are your, what are your values, right? And define those values and how do they inform the actions and the decisions you make in your life that's bad. And then, you know, right. What, what is your mission in life? Remember, all these things are not written in stone. This is not have to be the rest of your life. You know, they're not, they're not the 10 commandments there things that you can change, but you need to know what, why you're here, or at least an idea of why you're here. You know, I want to work, I want to help people. Right.

Amanda Hammett: Okay.

Howard Behar: You know, and I, I want to serve people that are in need, you know? And that helps guide you. And then you use those things to decide what kind of organization that you want to work in. C, we don't need to, we're not after a job.

Howard Behar: You know, we're trying to build a life. Yeah, we're trying to build a fulfilling life, which work is part of. And so you take your values and you overlay your values over the company's values, the organization's values. You overlay your mission over the company's mission and you'll say to these things, at least on paper, do they fit? Then if I paper they fit, then your work has just started because then what you want to do is go talk to people that work in the company. And the first question you should ask is, I, I've read your mission statement and the company's guiding principles or values statement, where, where do they not, where are they? The actions not in sync with the words. That's a great question cause you see it all the time because it's, it's there everywhere has that everywhere. They, even the wonderful Starbucks that I love dearly has that right. And you better when you've done that, then you better say, are these things I can live with or not live with? And another question you should ask is what are the, what are the, uh, what are the rewards, uh, spoken or the intrinsic rewards and what are the intrinsic penalties that happen when somebody does something well and somebody does something wrong? What happens when you screw something up in this organization?

Howard Behar: Oh, it tells us calibrate this mistakes or do they penalize mistakes? Does the organization shove you often in the noodle land, Netherlands and nobody will eat lunch with you because you made a mistake, you know, or did they all gather around and support you? So how do they act as human beings and you, you want to know the good, the bad and the ugly about any organization you're going to go to work with. And then before you go to work, I would not go to work for an organization that doesn't have you interview with your potential boss and there's lots of that do that. You'd never meet your boss until after you've been hired.

Amanda Hammett: Yeah.

Howard Behar: I would never take a job like that because I don't care how good the organization is, you know, or even sometimes how bad the organization is. If you get the right boss, somebody that respects other people and that you can respect and trust you and you trust stamp the world will be right. I agree.

Amanda Hammett: That is that, that was some fantastic advice right there. That was just like perfection.

Howard Behar: I would walk down the street and look at the person walking down the street or say, God, he's good looking. I'm going to marry that person. You know, you might fall in love because of how they look or something like that. Or maybe the clothes are wearing or you might get, you know, whatever. But you'll want to know more about them once. Yah, absolutely. That's what dating is about. That's what spending time together is about. And you find those things out, find the truth out.

Amanda Hammett: That isn't very, very true. Very true. All right, so similar question and this is our last question. Um, what advice would you give to a first time leader?

Howard Behar: I first time later. Don't take yourself too seriously, right? That uh, you know, on both sides of the ball you're not that good and you're not that bad. Love your people. And I mean love them. Use that word love right. You know, help your people be all they can be and you'll get what you need out of them. And they are read all the books you can get on servant leadership. And I, my, one of my favorites is a book from a gym. Uh, Jim James Autry does servant leadership and then get the daily Drucker. It's a book that, uh, that Peter Drucker, you know, it's all his stuff and he was a practitioner of servant leadership. He was a personal friend of Robert Greenleaf's. And use that as your guide and you know, and be willing to make mistakes and be willing to own up to your mistakes.That's number one, be vulnerable, be authentic. You know, you don't need to be the boss. Yes. You know, you don't need to be the boss. Screw up. Be the first one to raise your hand and say, I am sorry. served me well at home and in the office.

Amanda Hammett: I think that being able to own up to your mistakes is a major thing that people are so afraid of. But it's hard to do. It's so important because it builds trust with your, with your team, especially with millennials, they're very, they to have a little tendency to be distrusting. But if you are authentic and you own up to your mistakes, they see that and they build loyalty with that quicker than anything else.

Howard Behar: The boss who takes the bullets versus dodge the bullets, it will be my will be respected and the people will go to battle for them. If you dodge the bullets and let the bullet hit one of your people, they will. They trust me. They will never go to battle for you. And all you have to do is do that once you've totally broken trust and it takes forever to gain it back.

Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Howard Behar: And I've seen it happen so many times.

Howard Behar: Oh yes. It, it does. It happens unfortunately very regularly. Well, Mr be hard. Thank you so much for being on the show. This is, uh, been a wonderful, just chock full of great information both for young know next generation of leadership, but also for the current leaders out there who are looking to learn from one of the greats out there. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for being on the show and we will.

Howard Behar: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I always late to talk about leadership.

Amanda Hammett: Well fantastic. Well you had so much to share and I appreciate it. Alright, take care. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent.

Amanda Hammett: So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rockstars show up just for you.